RCAF_Speedy brings dishonour to an honourable name

[RCAF_FB_BigCat]

Perhaps I should. But get in touch with Tiger and have him give me an answer to my question without anymore smart remarks please.

Thank You

RCAF_FB_BigCat

[Colslaw]

What I would like is RCAF to use their heads and respect the intent of the rules rather than find ways around them.

AVG has standing orders to not intentionally fire on chutes, and I thought RCAF had agreed to do the same.

It is hollow of me to apologize for swearing at the offending player as that was what I truly felt at the moment, however I will attempt to not do so in the future. I will also continue to not fire on chutes.

[Tiger]

Tiger just let us know what you want us to do.

S!~ BigCat,

We do not want the RCAF to walk away from Wings~of~War. For the most part, we view your squadron as excellent competition, which you can read in the posts above. What would be nice is if we could have a gentleman's agreement not to kill each other in our chutes, but I am not willing to make a rule against it because of the difficulty of enforcing such a rule.

[Schwack]

While shooting chutes represents something that is morally repulsive in real life, I think that in the context of the game it should be considered no different than destroying any other resource, since pilots are counted as one of the mission goals, and since there is the result of that pilot being out of the fight for 15 minutes. No pilot would think twice about strafing a column of trucks, but we see that as reducing the number of vehicles available to the enemy in that mission, and not as a number of helpless enemy soldiers being killed.

It sounds like there was a misunderstanding here, that Colslaw bailed out and figured he could leave the computer for a few minutes, but the other side, not knowing he was away from his mic, could only assume he was relaying information to his teammates still in the fight. A bailed pilot in the midst of an engagement is still in the fight. He is able to track enemy planes and warn friendly pilots in a way that is totally unrealistic, and that makes him a threat. They cannot know what he is saying, if anything at all.

This is becoming a big issue. Some things have been said and done that have ticked people off, and I hope that it does not get any worse. Please consider a possible solution: CtrlE+Esc+click "refly" can be done very quickly. The last two times I have bailed, knowing the possibility I could be shot in my chute, I have been able to get back to the map before my chute had fully deployed. There was an episode of "Black Sheep Squadron" where Boyington warned his pilots that the Japanese were shooting pilots in their chutes, and told them to wait as long as possible after bailing out before pulling the cord, so they would not be vulnerable. We cannot control when the chute opens, but we do not have to wait for it. If you have never tried it, check it out. You do not have to land, your chute does not even have to open. As soon as your view changes from in cockpit to the back of your plane, you can refly. Your enemy will not have a chance to shoot you, and if he does, it will be because he was still shooting at your plane. If you are hanging in a chute, you are a threat and a resource, and you have not done everything you could have done to protect yourself.

[ScrewBall]

In my opinion, just because something is legal within a rule set, whether it be by omission or in specific, does not always mean it is an honourable or right thing to do. A pilot in his chute is essentially helpless; therefore, he represents no threat. To deliberately shoot a pilot in his chute (accidents do happen, of course) to me, represents dishonourable conduct of the basest sort, and I WILL NOT perpetrate it. Yes, this is war, and we fight wars to win, but we are supposed to be officers and gentlemen here, as well as competitors. If you don't want an opponent to bail out, and you simply MUST kill him, the solution is simple: Either aim for the cockpit, or expend sufficient ammunition to blow your opponent's plane to bits.

[S.L.N]

The difference is schwack those ground units in game do not care. There is not a person that has to take a 15 minute break when those are destroyed. there is still something morally repulsive about a guy who will waste ammunition to kill something that can not possibly do him any more harm rather than save it for the next engagement. Its like the ultimate middle finger in a sense

[Schwack]

A real life WWII pilot hanging in his chute was helpless and represented no threat; an IL2 pilot hanging in a chute, still on comms with his teammates, with a bird's eye view of the battle, able to zoom 3km in any direction, and presumably giving real-time intelligence to his teammates that would be unavailable in any real scenario, is absolutely a threat. For example, if I were damaged during a fight but a teammate managed to cause my attacker to break off so I could dive into a cloud and escape, he would have a hard time finding me again, and I would probably escape. However, if an enemy pilot had bailed in the area, he could first have warned my attacker to break before being shot, and then could have noted my altitude and heading so that another enemy plane could finish me off. By shooting that pilot, a teammate could turn certain death for me to a likely escape.

There is no reason to hang in a chute all the way down, except to watch a battle. Re-spawn and get back in the fight. I can understand waiting to refly until your plane crashes, and normally I would do that. In combat against opponents known to shoot chutes, I refly as soon as my pilot exits the cockpit, and would not expect them to complain about a lack of honor on my part. I do not think this should be as big an issue as it has become, and I do not want to see the RCAF stop playing. We know their tactics. We may disagree with them, but they are not breaking rules. It is up to us to find ways to counter them. We have succeeded in that to some degree; I have not once this week been unable to spawn because our base was camped. We can counter chute-killing by not giving them the chance to do it.

[S.L.N]

A real life WWII pilot hanging in his chute was helpless and represented no threat; an IL2 pilot hanging in a chute, still on comms with his teammates, with a bird's eye view of the battle, able to zoom 3km in any direction, and presumably giving real-time intelligence to his teammates that would be unavailable in any real scenario, is absolutely a threat. For example, if I were damaged during a fight but a teammate managed to cause my attacker to break off so I could dive into a cloud and escape, he would have a hard time finding me again, and I would probably escape. However, if an enemy pilot had bailed in the area, he could first have warned my attacker to break before being shot, and then could have noted my altitude and heading so that another enemy plane could finish me off. By shooting that pilot, a teammate could turn certain death for me to a likely escape.

There is no reason to hang in a chute all the way down, except to watch a battle. Re-spawn and get back in the fight. I can understand waiting to refly until your plane crashes, and normally I would do that. In combat against opponents known to shoot chutes, I refly as soon as my pilot exits the cockpit, and would not expect them to complain about a lack of honor on my part. I do not think this should be as big an issue as it has become, and I do not want to see the RCAF stop playing. We know their tactics. We may disagree with them, but they are not breaking rules. It is up to us to find ways to counter them. We have succeeded in that to some degree; I have not once this week been unable to spawn because our base was camped. We can counter chute-killing by not giving them the chance to do it.

It shouldnt be an issue because it shouldnt be done, its in OUR code of conduct and that of many others, some don't include because its expected to RESPECT your opponet. in the grand scheme of things anything a pilot hanging in his chute could relay would be irrelevant. He may be able to zoom out to 3k,case in point can you identify what type of plane you are merging with when hes 3k out via your gunsight? its also unlikely be unable to identify succesfully who it is and they're heading as those who are still in the fight will be conversing among themselves. There are no rules as the wings of war was designed to be flown by people who dont need rules to tell them how to behave.

I was killed while bailing out of a plane that was missing a wing and was on fire by a pilot who continued to pour ammo into it. He was within the boundries and I didnt really have a problem with it, but this is different than finding a lone parachute out in the middle of nowhere and firing upon it. For the record, when you hit ESC+Refly your chute still appears in game while you select your aircraft or sit on the base page.

[ScrewBall]

What you mention regarding a pilot relaying intel is a valid point, Schwack, but on the other hand, such intel is of limited value due to the extreme fluidity of most air combat situations; by the time the pilot's teammates can act on the information, the situation could change in a thousand different ways, unless said teammates are present at the situation. HItting 'refly' at the earliest opportunity also makes sense as a countermeasure to getting chuteshot, as well. Also, if a pilot bails over enemy territory, there's an excellent chance he's going to wind up a POW, and have to serve the 15 minute timeout anyways. I suppose my take is that the combat we engage in is savage enough already; why add purely gratuitous death that (IMHO) serves no real purpose?

[Schwack]

I'm thinking of a furball, where you already have multiple pilots engaged in a small area. A bailed pilot can warn a teammate of an enemy on his tail and can track a bandit easier than a pilot confined in his cockpit. I would never condone the shooting of a pilot outside the immediate area of an engagement.

A week ago, I would have vehemently argued the other side of the discussion, but after thinking about it, I have come to the opinion that a hanging pilot in the immediate area of a dogfight could reasonably be construed as a threat and is a valid target. I understand others do not share that opinion. I do think that we should make it SOP to re-spawn immediately after bailing during WOW.

I will continue to follow the standing orders not to kill bailed pilots, though if it were up to me I would shoot any pilot who did not re-spawn within a reasonable amount of time if bandits are in sight, and any opponent who is known to shoot chutes.